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Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 12:28 am
by Strange
I would like to suggest removing the ability that gun dealers have to give themselves weapons.
As it currently stands, any player except arms dealers must seek out weapons from another player. If they die, they have to wait until they get out of the hospital, then locate an arms dealer to purchase a weapon. Arms dealers on the other hand, can give themselves a new gun while they are still twitching in the hospital, enabling them to immediately set out for revenge. Now, I know what arguments will be used against this. Gun Lockers and Be An Arms Dealer.
With the lockers, yes, many players will just be able to make their way to a gun locker and retrieve a stored weapon. I say, make the arms dealers do it too. They should have to use the same means as everyone else to obtain their weaponry. This makes everyone the same, and disallows one player to gain advantage over another.
As for becoming an arms dealer in order to gain this advantage yourself, there would still be advantage in being an arms dealer, as you would be able to trade with another dealer and still get the weapon for the same base cost, but it would require that you seek out a dealer just like everyone else. But on the other hand, you would have to find a dealer willing and able to trade you for the same weapon you wanted. Some dealers might not want to use the materials for an M4, and might insist that you pay for it instead. This is fair as well, since everyone else has to pay for guns, and the dealer will make the money back on the next one he sells, therefore breaking even with where he would be if he had made it himself.
The bottom line is that the ability to instantly manufacture a weapon whenever you desire is an unfair advantage over all the players that perform the other jobs the city needs. I think it would be fair to make arms dealers subject to the same limitations on obtaining guns that everyone else is.
And, yes, I am an arms dealer.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 7:00 am
by Fuji_Kaito
i have all these guns for sale but quick gimme a gun i don't have one
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 7:43 am
by mattyy
Actually it doesnt makes a difference, you could just pass some of the mats to your gang members or friend and ask him to make you that gun
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 7:45 am
by Silver_Leo
mercs have the 'unfair' advantage of finding people.
wheelmen have the 'unfair' advantage of repairing their car
drug dealers smoke weed all day every day
arms dealers make guns
what the fuck is not fair with this system? Each class has their advantage.
Also good luck seeking out revenge as an arms dealer since you don't know where anyone is !!
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 10:13 am
by David_York
^
Damn straight...
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 11:24 am
by Strange
Fuji_Kaito wrote:i have all these guns for sale but quick gimme a gun i don't have one
That is just a lame argument, try putting a little effort into it.
mattyy wrote:Actually it doesnt makes a difference, you could just pass some of the mats to your gang members or friend and ask him to make you that gun
Matty, you obviously didn't even read the post, or if you did, failed to understand it. Of course that would be possible, but it would require that you work in tandem with another arms dealer. This was all in the post already, try reading it again.
Silver_Leo wrote:mercs have the 'unfair' advantage of finding people.
wheelmen have the 'unfair' advantage of repairing their car
drug dealers smoke weed all day every day
arms dealers make guns
what the fuck is not fair with this system? Each class has their advantage.
Also good luck seeking out revenge as an arms dealer since you don't know where anyone is !!
I expected better from you Leo. Really, I did. Did you even think this through before posting?
The find function of the mercenary is not an unfair advantage, just like the ability to sell guns is not. But the mercenary cannot guard themselves to gain armor, they can only provide this service to others. Would you not agree that guarding yourself would be unfair? It is the same as being able to arm yourself.
The wheelman job. Yes, I agree, it IS an unfair advantage that a wheelman can repair his own car on the move. But this topic is not about the wheelman, and I find it disheartening that you would have the attitude of "Just because one job is messed up, why can't all of them be". This topic isn't addressing the problems with that job, but with arms dealing. Your logic on this one was lacking friend.
Drug Dealers. Drug dealers can only carry so many drugs under the current system, so if a drug dealer is smoking up his own stock, then he has less than the full amount to sell to others, therefore reducing his profit unless he re-acquires. This means that he will have to run back to the pick-up spot, and get more in order to go sell them. Unlike a gun dealer, the drug dealer cant pack around a vast supply of product which balances out the fact that they can use their own stock cheaper.
I welcome people to argue against my ideas, but please do so in a logical fashion. The posts up to this point were hardly worth the time it took to read them.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 1:35 pm
by Landino_Semunchi
So don't allow drug dealers to use drugs, allow wheelmen to repair or nos their own car...
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 1:56 pm
by Ari_Papadopoulos
So what you want is for Arms Dealers to have to create guns only at gun lockers? Yes/No
Do you want players to be able to use materials to make guns at gun lockers if they are not Arms Dealers? Yes/No
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 2:54 pm
by Strange
Ari_Papadopoulos wrote:So what you want is for Arms Dealers to have to create guns only at gun lockers? Yes/No
Do you want players to be able to use materials to make guns at gun lockers if they are not Arms Dealers? Yes/No
Not at all Ari. What I am suggesting is not that arms dealers should have to be present at a locker to make guns, but that if they should wish to obtain a weapon without visiting a fellow arms dealer, they should have to retrieve one from their own locker like everyone else.
The ability to create guns should only be available to the arms dealer, as allowing others to make their own weapons from materials would defeat the entire purpose of the arms dealer job.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 3:41 pm
by Chris Hansen
I don't see the point to this. Each of the jobs have their own perks as Silver mentioned. Wheelmen can repair and modify their own car, drug dealers can smoke the pot they buy at drug dens, lawyers can /tinfoil themselves, and mercenaries can guard, breakin, tie, find and all that. If we gimp one of the jobs, we'd have to gimp them all. Making an arms dealer go out of his way to buy guns which he has mats for doesn't make sense, nor would it make sense for a wheelman to call for another wheelman while his car is on fire, etc.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 7:00 pm
by Strange
I am sorry that you don't understand it Chris, but this is not "gimping" the job at all. They will still be able to sell weapons, which is what the job is for. All I am saying is that in all fairness, arms dealers should have to have the same foresight other players display by acquiring weapons in advance to store in their lockers.
And maybe a wheelman should get his car repaired before it catches on fire.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 7:37 pm
by Ari_Papadopoulos
Strange wrote:Ari_Papadopoulos wrote:So what you want is for Arms Dealers to have to create guns only at gun lockers? Yes/No
Do you want players to be able to use materials to make guns at gun lockers if they are not Arms Dealers? Yes/No
Not at all Ari. What I am suggesting is not that arms dealers should have to be present at a locker to make guns, but that if they should wish to obtain a weapon without visiting a fellow arms dealer, they should have to retrieve one from their own locker like everyone else.
The ability to create guns should only be available to the arms dealer, as allowing others to make their own weapons from materials would defeat the entire purpose of the arms dealer job.
Ok, so you're saying that arms dealers should ideally ONLY be able to make guns at lockers for themselves, and not at other locations? Yes/No
Or, are you saying that arms dealers should never be able to create a gun for themselves, only for others, and that if an arms dealer wants a gun they should have to seek out another arms dealer?
Or, are you saying that everyone should be able to make guns out of materials as long as they are at a locker, and only arms dealers should be able to buy and sell guns?
Please confirm or deny these statements so I, and others, understand what you are proposing.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 21st, 2008, 11:43 pm
by Strange
Ari_Papadopoulos wrote:Strange wrote:Ari_Papadopoulos wrote:So what you want is for Arms Dealers to have to create guns only at gun lockers? Yes/No
Do you want players to be able to use materials to make guns at gun lockers if they are not Arms Dealers? Yes/No
Not at all Ari. What I am suggesting is not that arms dealers should have to be present at a locker to make guns, but that if they should wish to obtain a weapon without visiting a fellow arms dealer, they should have to retrieve one from their own locker like everyone else.
The ability to create guns should only be available to the arms dealer, as allowing others to make their own weapons from materials would defeat the entire purpose of the arms dealer job.
Ok, so you're saying that arms dealers should ideally ONLY be able to make guns at lockers for themselves, and not at other locations? Yes/No
Or, are you saying that arms dealers should never be able to create a gun for themselves, only for others, and that if an arms dealer wants a gun they should have to seek out another arms dealer?
Or, are you saying that everyone should be able to make guns out of materials as long as they are at a locker, and only arms dealers should be able to buy and sell guns?
Please confirm or deny these statements so I, and others, understand what you are proposing.
Are you intentionally misunderstanding this Ari? The answer to that is right there in the quote. But as you offered it as one of your options, I'll use your own words.
Or, are you saying that arms dealers should never be able to create a gun for themselves, only for others, and that if an arms dealer wants a gun they should have to seek out another arms dealer?
That is exactly what I'm saying.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 12:38 am
by connie_lingus
Fuji_Kaito wrote:i have all these guns for sale but quick gimme a gun i don't have one
EXACTLY
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 1:24 am
by Chris Hansen
Strange wrote:I am sorry that you don't understand it Chris, but this is not "gimping" the job at all. They will still be able to sell weapons, which is what the job is for.
It is gimping the job because it takes away one of the features/perks of the job. It would be the same as if Mercenaries could no longer /find people or if Wheelmen couldn't use NOS. I don't see any reason or benefit to removing an arms dealer's ability to sell guns to himself.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 1:35 am
by Ari_Papadopoulos
Yeah, this is a moronic suggestion, that's why I was having trouble understanding it. Should a wheelman have to seek out another wheelman to repair? Should a drug dealer have to seek out another drug dealer in order to use drugs? Should a mercenary have to ask another mercenary to find someone for him?
Yes, it's an unfair advantage that Arms Dealers can make guns on the spot, but that is the point of the different jobs. Right now drug dealer is pretty unbalanced, but otherwise all the jobs have their own advantages.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 1:55 am
by Strange
No, it was a good suggestion, it was just met with moronic responses. I suppose the whole concept is above your ability to reason it out, but that's the way it goes I guess. And Ari, the "Should a mercenary have to have another mercenary find for him thing" is proof that you lack the ability to understand the relationships between the two jobs' abilities. It would be like a mercenary being able to guard himself to gain armor, not find people.
I guess you just don't want to take the time to think out how each job relates to the entire server as far as balance and economic force, or you lack the ability to do so and shoot down any suggestion that might bring that to light. But have it your way, brow beat the idea into obscurity with foolishness. Anything to avoid making the server a more interesting place to play. And God help any suggestion that might actually force people to interact with each other.
I guess I'm done with this topic then. Have fun with it.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 1:58 am
by Silver_Leo
p.s: with suggestions not even worth half a nutsack, your patronizing behavior and over-inflated manically disturbed ego is just out of place here. please fix the unfair advantage of sucking your own dick over your own suggestions as this veneration of yourself is heresy.
p.p.s: Are you just mad that an arms dealer created a gun and shot you?
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 2:09 am
by Chris Hansen
It's no wonder this guy gave a dumb suggestion.
He also prefers
static housing over dynamic houses, he thinks
$100 is too much for pot, and to top it all off he likes to
play devil's advocate and is an aspiring law student leading me to believe he doesn't actually want any of the changes he has suggested, but is instead arguing for the sake of argument.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 22nd, 2008, 3:20 am
by Kofi_Kingston
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 23rd, 2008, 3:33 am
by Jai_Mcmannus
Ok i was just browsing the forums and i found this thread
And i thought i'd throw my thought to the topic
With your idea of arms dealers not being able to sell themselves guns i believe they should be able to because they work for there shit. Meaning they take the time and effort to earn the mats and why would they buy a gun from someone else if they can sell to themselves at mat price instead of buying of someone who charges more inorder to make a profit. The reason Mercs cannot /guard themselves is because they do not spend time and money inorder to be able to do it. Unlike gun dealers they put money into the mats they run so in turn get the privlage to sell to themselves. And with drug dealers geting high of the own supply this is not judged as unfair for 2 reasons i believe one because in reallife drug dealers do get high on there supply and that they pay for the drugs and get the right to use there money for a little bit of personal gain or help.
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 23rd, 2008, 9:00 am
by Gook_Johnson
Fuji_Kaito wrote:i have all these guns for sale but quick gimme a gun i don't have one
this sums up the awnser you will get for this thread...
no
Re: Self Service Armament
Posted: November 23rd, 2008, 6:13 pm
by Nurgle
no